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General discussion about downgrading
VioFitz



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Offtopic: I solved by following your advice & it works, thanks! Mr. Green

Off topic: After I've learned from you, it's really shown that I'm just a leecher. Of course because I'm not a programmer, I just know changing something in coding(Just like when you gave me a solution to downgrade this char). By the way is it mugen coding need a math skills?(to be honest I don't know anything about coding)


On topic: I've got a question for this downgrade forum: If some creators would change their mind that they don't want their work to be downgraded anymore, but we already posted about their work to be downgraded before they change their mind. So what should we do in this moment? Move the topic & delete it?(I don't want any trouble that will happen with this forum)
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Mike Werewolf
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By the way is it mugen coding need a math skills?(to be honest I don't know anything about coding)

Yeah, Mugen needs math skills. In Mugen, 90% of the code are mathematical expressions, so we use math a lot. However, you don't need to be a great mathematician to code for Mugen, you just need to know some basics about the expressions, and above all, to have a good logic.

In fact, to code, you just have to be logic, and you use math to "translate" this logic for Mugen (or for any program). Wink

Citation:
If some creators would change their mind that they don't want their work to be downgraded anymore, but we already posted about their work to be downgraded before they change their mind. So what should we do in this moment?

If such thing happens, I'll remove the topics about the concerned chars (I'll put them in a "dump" and hidden section, so no one could see these topics anymore, but if the creator changes his mind again, I could re-put the topic in this section).

And if you know about such things, let me know, please Wink

Mike Werewolf.
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VioFitz



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Yeah, Mugen needs math skills. In Mugen, 90% of the code are mathematical expressions, so we use math a lot. However, you don't need to be a great mathematician to code for Mugen, you just need to know some basics about the expressions, and above all, to have a good logic.

In fact, to code, you just have to be logic, and you use math to "translate" this logic for Mugen (or for any program).


This is remind me of my father when I'm asking "why do we have to learn math" to him. It's not about math only but we learn math to think more factual & use logic.

Citation:
If such thing happens, I'll remove the topics about the concerned chars (I'll put them in a "dump" and hidden section, so no one could see these topics anymore, but if the creator changes his mind again, I could re-put the topic in this section).


Good to hear that. Imo this section is kinda risky enough. Since they(mfg) ever discuss about this section. I don't want they'll discuss this section again in the future.

Citation:
And if you know about such things, let me know, please


Sure. Wink
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Mike Werewolf
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Imo this section is kinda risky enough. Since they(mfg) ever discuss about this section.

Well, IMO, their discussion is useless (but I've noted that some Mugen people love to talk about nothing, and even make flamewars with useless things... If they were spending this time to create instead of discussing, we should have a lot of more creations... Rolling Eyes ).

Have they discussed about the progs that are converting DOS creations to Win ? No, at contrary, they were happy to find those programs.

Some people even encourage users to use Win Mugen instead of DOS, and so, to convert DOS chars for Win. Do they mind to ask creators before doing such "upgrade" ? Once again, no.

So why do they have to discuss about Win to DOS conversions ? I don't think it's an ethic question. It's just that they use Win Mugen and can't stand some other persons prefer DOS Mugen (even if Win is a bugged and hacked version of Mugen - do they respect Elecbyte, creator of Mugen ? I don't think so... It's a pity, because some of themselves, as they're creators, are asking for respect, what a paradox...).

NB : I'm not talking about all WinMugen users ; I talk about those who can't stand DOS Mugen (after having used it for several years...) and its users.

Moreover, as the changes are made in private, they can say whatever they want, there's no problem ; private changes are allowed in Mugen.

And as you can see, this section isn't used a lot (5 conversions asked in 8 months, and 2 refused). So I really can't understand why, objectively, this section can annoy them (if they were tons of conversions asked, why not, but here...).

Mike Werewolf.
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VioFitz



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Have they discussed about the progs that are converting DOS creations to Win ? No, at contrary, they were happy to find those programs.

Some people even encourage users to use Win Mugen instead of DOS, and so, to convert DOS chars for Win. Do they mind to ask creators before doing such "upgrade" ? Once again, no.


I doubt this too but since most of the creators(not all I think) would like their creations to be upgrade it, so I think this is the reason why they never discuss this.(maybe)

Citation:
So why do they have to discuss about Win to DOS conversions ? I don't think it's an ethic question. It's just that they use Win Mugen and can't stand some other persons prefer DOS Mugen (even if Win is a bugged and hacked version of Mugen - do they respect Elecbyte, creator of Mugen ? I don't think so... It's a pity, because some of themselves, as they're creators, are asking for respect, what a paradox...).

NB : I'm not talking about all WinMugen users ; I talk about those who can't stand DOS Mugen (after having used it for several years...) and its users.


I think they(not all) just want to enjoy mugen itself instead of respecting the creator of mugen(electbyte). Yes we know we use & enjoy it but we have to remember who made mugen.

Citation:
Moreover, as the changes are made in private, they can say whatever they want, there's no problem ; private changes are allowed in Mugen.


Yes, it's allowed but some of them planning to release in the public without knowing what did they've done.

By the way I should ask this in mugen discussion since this topic it's discussing about zangyura. Sad
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Mike Werewolf
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Yeah, I'll split the topic.

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most of the creators(not all I think) would like their creations to be upgrade

Maybe, but no matters. The idea is the same ; if they don't mind upgrading creations without asking permission, why should they mind about downgrading without permission ?

Citation:
I think they(not all) just want to enjoy mugen itself instead of respecting the creator of mugen(electbyte). Yes we know we use & enjoy it but we have to remember who made mugen.

Right. And, I can understand some persons, like Byakko, who only create for Win/Linux because DOS Mugen doesn't work anymore on their computer, or even because they find this easier.

But what I can't understand is why some other creators forbid users to convert their char to DOS. It's their right to prefer DOS Mugen instead of Win. Since there's no public release of the converted chars, I don't see what bothers them...

Citation:
Yes, it's allowed but some of them planning to release in the public without knowing what did they've done.

That's an other problem. The people who do this don't only convert ; if there're public releases of the changed chars, it's robbery.

Mike Werewolf.
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VioFitz



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Yeah, I'll split the topic.


Thanks for moving this. Wink

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Maybe, but no matters. The idea is the same ; if they don't mind upgrading creations without asking permission, why should they mind about downgrading without permission ?


Citation:
But what I can't understand is why some other creators forbid users to convert their char to DOS. It's their right to prefer DOS Mugen instead of Win. Since there's no public release of the converted chars, I don't see what bothers them...


Yeah, thats the question. downgrading doesn't bothering their creation(because private changes is allowed: of course), Well we can't force them if they don't want(eventhough we don't understand why Confused ).

Citation:
Right. And, I can understand some persons, like Byakko, who only create for Win/Linux because DOS Mugen doesn't work anymore on their computer, or even because they find this easier.


Yup, & Byakko still respect for the DOSMugen user since he's allowing his creations to be downgraded & his pal(pallete chars) were still shared. In fact its proven not all WinMugen user were can't stand to use DOSMugen.

Btw sorry if I miss something about reading your rules is there any FAQ for this section? Embarassed
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Mike Werewolf
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Well we can't force them if they don't want(eventhough we don't understand why ).

Right, and that's why if the author says he forbid downgrading, I won't answer for topics concerning his creations (that's the case for Kung Fu Man and Erradicator).

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Btw sorry if I miss something about reading your rules is there any FAQ for this section?

The rules for this section are here :
http://mike.mugen.free.fr/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=1326#1326 Wink

Mike Werewolf.
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VioFitz



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The rules for this section are here :
http://mike.mugen.free.fr/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=1326#1326


I know what I'm asking is "is there any frequently ask question page for this section?" If its available I'm afraid if I accidentally ask you a same question like in FAQS, so thats the reason why I apologize if I miss reading your rules. If you confuse just ignore it, I'll read your rules more carefully.

Citation:
Right, and that's why if the author says he forbid downgrading, I won't answer for topics concerning his creations (that's the case for Kung Fu Man and Erradicator).


I'll PM you for my question
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Mike Werewolf
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is there any frequently ask question page for this section? If its available I'm afraid if I accidentally ask you a same question like in FAQS, so thats the reason why I apologize if I miss reading your rules

OK, so :
* I've made a tutorial for downgrading ; users who ask for downgrade should read it (and apply it) before they open a topic. So this tutorial is a kind of "FAQ".
* But since this tutorial is only in french, this "rule" doesn't apply for english-speaking users. Wink

Mike Werewolf.
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VioFitz



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I want to post a new topic to downgrade the char, then I give you the page where we can get the char, but the problem is the page where we can get the char was a warehouse mugen chars. My question is: Am I allowed to post a new topic like that?
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Mike Werewolf
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the page where we can get the char was a warehouse mugen chars

* If it was but is not anymore a warehouse, no problem.
* If it was and still is a warehouse, then, according to the rules, don't give link to this page (just give the name of the char and its author).

Mike Werewolf.
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General discussion about downgrading
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